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Poster: leftwinger57 Date: Oct 19, 2011 10:29am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

Through the years I've seen somebands that have 2 drummers and use them to great effect ie'THE ALLMANS,and The Charlie band and of course the Dead. But is it really needed if you have a Charlie Watts,Alan White,Ginger Baker,Max Weinberg and one of the best drummers I had ever seen Billy Cobham.now when you hear the Allmans talk about being locked in then that's something very special but is it really needed.For me a more forceful B-3 and good piano fills are enough and and can't tell you how many times the place exited for the bathrooms during the drums.As a postscript w/ bands having shadow bands augmenting their sound w/ percussionist and multi instrumentalists as did the Moody Blues when I saw them,not bad at all and 3 out of the original 5 were there and another show in the 80s featured the Airplane reunion and they had a whole gaggle of shadow players and I relly didn't think they actually needed it.

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Oct 19, 2011 12:23pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

this completely depends on the style of music being played. having 2 drummers dramatically changes the sound of any band. 2 drummers was perfect for the dead's early sound. it was also ideal for the hard rocking beast they became in the late '70s and afterwards. however, the band could never have sounded as fluid and jazzy as they did '72-'74 if mickey was still around.

some music is perfectly suited for 2 drummers such as motown(funk brothers), prog-rock(YES) and a lot of metal. slipknot even has 3 drummers, and it works for their thrash metal sound.

here's some bands that would have been much different with only 1 drummer:
ABB, King Crimson, Genesis, Doobie Brothers, most of Talking Heads, early Zappa, BTO

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 19, 2011 1:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

Genesis didn't really use two drummers in the traditional sense. They added Chester Thompson when Phil Collins took over as lead vocalist and became a frontman for most of the time he was singing. I never really thought when Phil went back to the drums that it added that much to their sound. They are both great but was it really complementary playing? I don't recall King Crimson having two drummers at the same time. Could you point to examples? I can't imagine Bill Bruford sharing that stage. Same with Yes or Talking Heads. I think the latter used percussion but thats different than two drummers. If we are counting extra percussion, i think Santana's live shows were always a good example of effective use of percussion.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 19, 2011 2:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

Genuine two-drummer bands (as opposed to drums-plus-percussion bands like Little Feat) are actually pretty thin on the ground. King Crimson had two drummers when Gavin Harrison joined in 2007 but I'm pretty sure that was the first time in their 40 year history. I think the only time Yes had two drummers was when Bill Bruford and Alan White both played on the Union album and tour, and I believe Bruford said it was the worst album he ever participated in.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 19, 2011 2:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

Thanks for the update. I haven't listened to any Crimson since Three of a Perfect Pair came out. Is any of it worth chasing down? I thought Bruford almost sounded like two drummers on Red.

btw i must correct myself on the Genesis thing. Actually it was Bruford who initially toured as the drummer when Phil started singing but he quit pretty early on and then Chester joined.

on a separate note, i dropped something in the post for you yesterday. hopefully it will arrive on your doorstep sooner than later.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Oct 19, 2011 9:50pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

Wait a second - the Fripp/Belew/Levin/Bruford trio of Discipline, Beat and Three of A Perfect Pair rank among the best things any of those guys ever did. Come on - Belew on Neal, Jack and Me telling On The Road from the car's perspective? Thela Hun Ginjeet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duvW4kednWI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZVvbOu4qYA

Elephant Talk? Industry? (Dig me, but don't bury me...).

Sorry - this is the stuff of my early to mid 80s.

And Fripp didn't go anywhere....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWU-0KiJBHA

This post was modified by bluedevil on 2011-10-20 04:50:32

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 20, 2011 3:18am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

I agree, just saying that after that trilogy came out and they broke up that line up, i stopped listening. Have you listened to any of the albums that have come out since then? Anything worth checking out?

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Oct 20, 2011 8:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

I have, but I wasn't really moved by anything after 3 of A Perfect Pair. Belew and Levin just played SF earlier this week but I couldn't go.

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 19, 2011 2:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

I really don't have much of worth to say on King Crimson. They're a band that somehow I feel I should have more time for, and I do have great respect for Fripp's ferocious technical ability, but ultimately the music just doesn't move me.

Thank you, Larry - I'll look forward to that. You're a very gracious and generous person - I think that comes across in your posts here too.

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Oct 19, 2011 2:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

I really liked listening to them and Gabriel-era Genesis in college, but rarely have listened to either since. 3 of Perfect Pair came out while i was in college and then they broke up for a bit and i never followed them after that. I do recall trying to scare the bejesus out of the students in the lab one time by making them listen to 21st Century Schizoid Man.

thanks for the kind words.

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Oct 19, 2011 2:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

i should have been more specific about drummers compared to percussionists.

crimson's first lineup with 2 drummers was in '72:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Crimson#King_Crimson.2C_line-up_3_.28mid-1972.E2.80.931974.29

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 19, 2011 2:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

Jamie Muir was first and foremost a percussionist and only occasionally a drummer in the traditional sense, so I'm not sure this counts.

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Poster: rdenirojb87 Date: Oct 19, 2011 2:53pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

yes, i suppose you're correct. i'm not much of a crimson fan. i prefer elp if i'm in the mood for that music. i just remembered them having 2 drummers at some point and figured it must have been for awhile.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 19, 2011 11:39am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

some do and some dont!!! there must be a reason the ones that choose to have 2 drummers have 2 drummers!!

This post was modified by RBNW....new and improved! on 2011-10-19 18:39:15

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Oct 19, 2011 11:02am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

I would say no.

I personally loved the sound of the Billy-Only Dead. Mickey had a tendency to muddy the sound. IMHO, of course.

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Poster: johnnyonthespot Date: Oct 19, 2011 2:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

an opinion shared by many including muself so you must be right

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Poster: Jacky Hughes Date: Oct 19, 2011 11:24am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

Does a fish need a bicycle ?

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 19, 2011 11:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

i suppose they do...

Attachment: fish-bicycle.jpg

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 19, 2011 11:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

If only this were true of all your posts:


sorry%252520page.jpg

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Oct 19, 2011 12:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

harrowing and pathetic ....rob you get both words!!!

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Poster: robthewordsmith Date: Oct 19, 2011 12:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: do rock bands really need 2 drummers

Yeah? Do I have to use them in a sentence?